Rotary Wing Forum  

Go Back   Rotary Wing Forum > Kit Makers & Manufacturers > RAF - Rotary Air Force

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-06-2003, 04:35 PM
Gaylon Gaylon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Artesia NM
Posts: 71
Default RAF 2000 H/stab

Hi all,


I'm planning on building a RAF 2000 and I would like to hear about peoples H/stab opinions and experiances on the RAF or other machines. I know RAF still feels their rubber cushed mast is a stabilizer, and it is somewhat.


Thanks

Gaylon
Artesia NM
__________________
Gaylon Fuller
Roto Hawk Falcon I
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-06-2003, 11:56 PM
r.coplen r.coplen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle Washington
Posts: 327
Default Re:RAF 2000 H/stab

Hi Gaylon,

I would like to suggest you explore the possibility of adding the AAI CLT Mod Kit. It costs a few more bucks but your finished aircraft will fly like a SparrowHawk. You are not all that far away from Buckeye Az. and if you want I will set up a demo flight in either an AAI modified RAF or a SparrowHawk. You will spend 300 to 500 hours making you aircraft. If you add the AAI Mod Kit you will have the state of the art in safe, stable gyroplanes and I believe your higher resale value would more than cover your additional investment. You will have center line thrust, tough forgiving landing gear and many more new features. Check out the info on the Mod Kit at americanautogyro.com
__________________
R Coplen 206-947-4900
AAI Dealer (SparrowHawk) in Seattle
r.coplen@comcast.net
Flight School and Build Center
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-07-2003, 06:36 AM
Chuck_Ellsworth Chuck_Ellsworth is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 1,697
Default Re:RAF 2000 H/stab

Gaylon:

Who told you that the RAF mast is a stabalizer?
__________________
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-07-2003, 12:57 PM
airRanger airRanger is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Valparaiso
Posts: 30
Send a message via Yahoo to airRanger
Default Re:RAF 2000 H/stab

: awwwwww geeeesh ...........
here we go AGAIN!! :'(
__________________
Dennis
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-07-2003, 04:01 PM
Chuck_Ellsworth Chuck_Ellsworth is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 1,697
Default Re:RAF 2000 H/stab

Well Airanger:

Do you think it is?

If you do how about explaining it to me.
__________________
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-07-2003, 04:56 PM
Gaylon Gaylon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Artesia NM
Posts: 71
Default Re:RAF 2000 H/stab



HI,


RAF told me it was. Do I think it is, I don't know. That's why I asked.


L8R


Gaylon
__________________
Gaylon Fuller
Roto Hawk Falcon I
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-08-2003, 05:38 AM
GyroRon's Avatar
GyroRon GyroRon is offline
Former Gyro know it all
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Fort Mill South Carolina
Posts: 16,100
Default Re:RAF 2000 H/stab

Gaylon, There is Absolutley no doubt the RAF can and will easily PIO and PPO with no stab. With out the Magic mast it would happen even easier.

the best thing the Magic mast does is help take out rotor shake.

A stab on a RAF makes it reasonably safe. It dampens the machine in turbulence and allows the pilot a chance to stay on top of the pilotage to keep the spinning side up where it belongs.

With all the evidence and proof on the rotorcraft fourms, Anyone that still did fly a RAF with no stab, is a - and sorry to sound like Craig Wall here - but that person is a Freaking MORON. It is rolling the dice with your life and your odds are low.

If you had a RAF it is best to do the CLT route, like the Sparrowhawk kit. this gives you a quite safe and user friendly machine. It takes away several factors that can become deadly in a standard RAF and leaves you with a stable flying machine that you can fly relaxed.

But you don't have to go CLT, Proper training and careful flying with a standard RAF with stab is reasonably safe. Without the stab there is only luck keeping you from Bunting over to your death. This is all fact not just my two cents.
__________________
Thats what she said.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-08-2003, 06:04 PM
Gaylon Gaylon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Artesia NM
Posts: 71
Default Re:RAF 2000 H/stab



Hey Bud,


Thank you for your honesty. Sometimes that is a rare commodity. I believe a h/stab is necessary to safe flight.

Thanks

Gaylon
__________________
Gaylon Fuller
Roto Hawk Falcon I
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-08-2003, 11:07 PM
Aussie_Paul's Avatar
Aussie_Paul Aussie_Paul is offline
A reforming stirrer!!!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ballarat Australia
Posts: 4,363
Default Re:RAF 2000 H/stab

Ron, the "magic" mast actually makes the pitch instability worse, but it does absorb and dampen rotor shake.

Aussie Paul.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-09-2003, 08:58 PM
davreich's Avatar
davreich davreich is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wautoma, Wisconsin
Posts: 183
Send a message via AIM to davreich
Default Re:RAF 2000 H/stab

;D And another consideration.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	RAFstablator.JPG
Views:	291
Size:	43.0 KB
ID:	135  
__________________

"Madness, as you know, is like gravity, all it takes is a little push." - The Joker
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-09-2003, 09:04 PM
davreich's Avatar
davreich davreich is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wautoma, Wisconsin
Posts: 183
Send a message via AIM to davreich
Default Re:RAF 2000 H/stab

;D Here's a link to a nice home made stab.

http://www.quiknet.com/~twitham/gyro/tail.html
__________________

"Madness, as you know, is like gravity, all it takes is a little push." - The Joker
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-10-2003, 12:46 AM
rgraffeo's Avatar
rgraffeo rgraffeo is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Gonzales, Louisiana
Posts: 914
Default Re:RAF 2000 H/stab

Gaylon,
I added a stab from Don Parham, it's light and effective.


Dave,
Where did you find that picture of the "stablator"?
Is RAF starting to market them?
__________________
Rudy Graffeo
PRA Chapter 20

RAF 2000
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-10-2003, 04:46 AM
Gaylon Gaylon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Artesia NM
Posts: 71
Default Re:RAF 2000 H/stab



Hi all,


I called and talked with Duane yesterday and he explained his consept and design. It sounds very interesting. Duane is now in Seminole Oklahoma. Thanks for posting the pic. I had not seen the stablator.


Thanks


Gaylon
__________________
Gaylon Fuller
Roto Hawk Falcon I
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-10-2003, 06:58 AM
GyroRon's Avatar
GyroRon GyroRon is offline
Former Gyro know it all
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Fort Mill South Carolina
Posts: 16,100
Default Re:RAF 2000 H/stab

Duannes Stab does NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT stablize the airframe. Only the rotorblades.

The Airframe is the part with the extremely high thrustline with the 130 plus horsepower engine.

Without either CLT or a properly set up stab on the AIRFRAME, the gyro is still begging to do a buntover.

There is NO stablization to the airframe by Duannes Stab. Just look at it and picture the forces it produces and how they would stop or counter the high thrustlines desire to flip the gyro over.

It is my honest opinion that the only reason this RAF stab is even here is to tell folks like you Gaylon - folks that have learned enough about RAF and gyros to know you want a stab on your machine - that there is a stab for RAF's approved by the factory. It is just so they can say they offer a stab. But for some reason they refuse to put a proper stab in the proper place - on the airframe not the rotor.

Gaylon just order a Sparrowhawk upgrade kit, or order a Stab for Don Parham or Larry Martin. Don't be fooled into thinking the RAF is safe without one of these three aftermarket additions. RAF has a history of leading people to think their gyros were safe and stable, yet they in truth they weren't and the pilot ended up dead.

__________________
Thats what she said.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-10-2003, 10:21 AM
Chuck_Ellsworth Chuck_Ellsworth is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 1,697
Default Re:RAF 2000 H/stab

I can retire now.... ;D ;D
__________________
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Any better wheela for RAF 2000 Art General Discussion 8 12-03-2004 08:41 AM
RAF 2000 for sale, Demo flights available Wolf66 For Sale 0 10-29-2004 10:23 AM
RAF 2000 wanted scottessex Wanted 2 10-12-2004 05:00 PM
RAF 2000 over Ory-gun Gary_in_Orygun Flying Photos 20 08-05-2004 10:53 AM
Modified Raf 2000 Aussie_Paul For Sale 2 01-02-2004 06:25 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management plugin by RedTyger